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PostPosted: Mon Oct 04, 2010 5:29 pm 
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Here is a picture of my console storage section and Disk Management


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 10, 2010 7:11 pm 
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Now that the HP MediaSmart line of home servers is no more, I thought I would share some photos of my EX470 setup as a eulogy to its squandered potential.

Attachment 1:

From right to left is my original EX470, subsequently modified with a 2MB RAM upgrade and 3.0 software, a Sans Digital Towerraid TR4M-B eSATA box, and three Sans Digital Towerraid TR4U-B USB towers. Each holds four hard drives for a total of 20. The drives vary in size from 500GB to 1.5TB, for a total of 22TBs, or 11TBs duplicated. Not shown in the photo is my wireless N router, which connects the server to four PCs located one floor below, one of which is a dedicated home theatre PC. Thanks to its eSATA functionality, the EX470/475 was technologically superior to all the MediaSmart home servers that followed except for the last one, the EX490/495.

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This gives you some idea of what attracted me to HP’s “Media Smart” claim to make it the hub of a home media collection. Below is part of my “Obsolete Media” collection: 78s, LPs, Cassettes and even Laserdiscs on the upper left hand side.

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Part of my CD Collection, which is spread out over three rooms.

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Part of my DVD Collection.

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It’s a storage nightmare of course. Try finding anything in in this mess or increasingly the equipment to play it on. Here is what my music collection looks like digitized and uploaded onto the server from my Windows 7 Media Center PC menu -- 4,565 albums so far, all neatly catalogued and searchable. The screen shot shows WMC playing an LP I bought in the early 1970s. I used MAGIX Audio Cleaning Lab to digitize and clean up over a thousand of my old LPs and cassettes, most of which are no longer available on the market in any format. They sound amazingly great once their snap, crackle, pop and hiss has been digitally removed.

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A picture of Windows 7 Media Center wirelessly streaming a thirty-five year old LP off the EX470.

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Here’s what 1,255 DVDs look like – my own private Netflix (which I also subscribe to, by the way). I’m using a plug-in called Media Browser because the built-in Windows application is buggy and takes forever to load the cover art. Media Browser, still in development, loads in a few seconds to a minute or so.

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And there’s also about 60 of my HD movies on the server as well. HD DVDs and the players that can play them are already unobtainable on the market and so getting the discs uploaded onto a hard drive is the only viable way of being able to safeguard one’s investment in them for the future. The same software that does this (AnyDVD HD from SlySoft) works for Blu-Ray as well. This is really an experiment, of course, as HD discs take up far too much disc space and bandwidth to play properly over a wireless N network. On the other hand, the so-called “digital copies” now being included in some Blu-ray releases are awful – even worse than DVD quality.

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WMC Plugins. ArcSoft TotalMedia Theatre is the software of choice if you need the ability to play uploaded HD DVDs copied using AnyDVD HD. Media Browser can set it up within WMC as the default player for both HD video formats, which Windows Media Center currently does not play natively.

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Program Guide in Windows 7 Media Center. For some totally inexplicable reason, Microsoft does not support digital TV tuners in Canada, although the technology is identical. To enable HD TV in Windows 7 Media Center, you need to fool the system using an American Zip Code as your alleged location. Then WMC will recognize the installed digital tuner . Here you see a mix of US digital channels from Buffalo and Canadian channels (both analog and digital) from Toronto:
And there it is, folks, couch potato Nirvana thanks to my HP MediaSmart Home Server and Windows Media Center!

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 10, 2010 11:44 pm 
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What an amazing setup, thanks for sharing your pics and describing what you've done! I hope you don't mind, I edited your post to put the images inline with your descriptions so we don't have to scroll back and forth between description and image. :)

Edit: I've got a couple questions, how long did it take you to digitize all your content? And do you think you could have grown it this way as easily without the Drive Extender technology in Windows Home Server?

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 12, 2010 4:43 pm 
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Since most LPs and Cassettes usually max out at about 45 minutes of playtime, it generally took me about an hour and a half to record and create the digitized and cleaned up copy. I’d do one or two albums a day in my spare time.

I started this project in 2003 shortly after the WMA lossless format came out, and long before I got my EX470. My goal then was to make a CD-R copy of each album to play both at home and in my car. MAGIX Audio Cleaning Lab could not write WMA lossless files directly, so my method was to burn a CD of the cleaned up album and then rip it onto my computer using the Windows Media Player lossless format. Once ripped, I then used the “Find Album” feature to find the cover art and track information from the CD version (if it existed), but usually I had to edit everything manually, including uploading digital photos of my LP and Cassette album covers. I salvaged about 800 LPs and 150 Cassettes this way, spanning the years 1965 to 1985, by which time I had switched over to CDs, many of which are also no longer on the market. I still prefer CDs over digital downloads, simply because I have a bias against lossy formats like MP3.

I am not a computer expert, and so have no idea about setting up RAID arrays and what not. Upgrading the RAM was a major effort for me, made possible only because of detailed step by step instructions posted on sites like this. Drive Extender was one of the best things about the EX470 – simple to use and virtually idiot proof. My main problem has been with the hard drives themselves – finding out after the fact that they’re incompatible with the server, or having them fail unexpectedly and catastrophically while in use. Thank heaven for Drive Extender’s data duplication! My biggest disappointment has been the Home Server Console – it takes forever to load and is often unresponsive once it does. I can’t understand why its operation is so pokey, since by comparison navigating through DVD menus and streaming them off the server is a breeze. The computer backup feature turned out to be the least important aspect of Windows Home Server, since everything of importance was migrated to the EX470, where the data is automatically duplicated.

I still think that a home server as the central repository for all things digital in the home -- text, photos, music and movies, is the way of the future, but with much more storage capacity to handle HD video. The future is online and virtual and that’s what I’ve accomplished with my setup – a lifetime of media collecting virtualized and made accessible by remote control from the comfort of my armchair. Once you’ve experienced it, there’s no going back.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 12, 2010 10:56 pm 
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Thanks for the additional insight, it sounds like a ton of work! What are your plans for storing your content when your EX470 eventually dies? With the removal of Drive Extender, Vail will likely not be as easy of a solution for you....

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 15, 2010 7:40 am 
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"This is really an experiment, of course, as HD discs take up far too much disc space and bandwidth to play properly over a wireless N network."

Wireless-N can easily handle streaming HD movies. All of my HD-DVDs and BluRay discs were copied to my WHS as .m2ts files using a program called ClownBD. These files are the original streams and are not re-compressed. Although the resultant .m2ts files aren't 1:1 copies I have what's important: the movie itself and one or more audio tracks as a single file, meaning when I select it for playback it just plays without having to fiddle with any menus and, in my case, defaults to the highest quality audio track.

You are correct, though, that the files can be quite large. For example, King Kong.m2ts is 33,774,324 KB.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 15, 2010 8:35 am 
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I posted an earlier reply, which for some reason didn’t upload.

I don’t know what I’m going to do when my EX470 expires, as there are no obvious replacements for it. It does everything I need it to do, except not as simply or reliably as it ought to.

All I did was take HP’s overhyped marketing claim to heart -- to make the MediaSmart Server the digital hub for all data, photos, audio and video in the home --- and made it my virtual reality. Along with others who invested so heavily in that vision and the technology, this is the thanks we get – a dead end.

I’m now paying attention to what Apple is doing, as their Mac Mini Server and Apple TV lines show some promise, but they’re nowhere near as capable as what I already have. I also own HP’s Apple TV equivalent, the defunct MediaSmart Connect x280n, an achingly beautiful piece of hardware (for an HP), but utterly subverted by its pokey software and limited file format support. Whatever one may think of Apple, at least they have the vision and the determination to stay the course. You won’t find them tossing the individual consumer overboard to chase some mythical “small business” client with what was supposed to a home product line. I don’t see much point to or future for Windows Media Center either. Integrating it with Windows Home Server, on the other hand, would have made for a killer product.

I’ll hold onto my EX470 it for as long as I can, consoled by the fact that nobody I know has anything approaching what I now have, and likely never will -- at least not from Microsoft or HP.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 15, 2010 9:09 am 
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THIS example is why I bought an HP MediaSmart, because I believed the advertising.

This is where HP should be going with this product instead of throwing it into the trashbin. Everyone I've shown setup, on the big screen of course, has been incredibly impressed and has inquired about getting one of their own. Then they start hearing about the set-up time and the effort involved in keeping it all operational and just sigh.

Maybe a smaller company will realize that a product like this can make them money and innovate for the home consumer. A market apparently too small for HP.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 15, 2010 10:19 am 
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I can tell you from my own personal experience that the Apple Mac Mini/AppleTV solution is likely a dead end for you to pursue, especially if you're looking for playback of HD disc content. The AppleTV was specifically designed by Apple to really only function as a playback device for content acquired through rental or purchase from the iTunes online store. The hardware of the device itself is limited to 720p, has no HD audio pass-through support, and supports just a few file formats for playback. A friend of mine recently purchased the new AppleTV model and spends quite a bit of time re-encoding videos he's downloaded using a program called Handbrake to make them play back on his AppleTV, something he's not really that thrilled about. [Note that the concern here is really for video files, any type of MP3 playback is no problem]

Some alternatives for you to look at are:

XBMC or Boxee (both of which can be installed on your HTPC right now as applications if you want to see what they're like http://http://xbmc.org/download/ and http://www.boxee.tv/signup)
Popcorn Hour A-210/C-200
Dune BD player

My personal setup is a Popcorn Hour A-110 talking to a custom-built WHS box with 12TB over my network. The Popcorn Hour model I have can basically playback anything except BluRay/HD-DVD ISO images which is fine considering I wouldn't bother putting full copies of those discs on my WHS anyway (the A-210/C-200 do support HD ISO image/directory structure playback). With this setup I have full 1080p playback, full HD audio pass-through support and can play back just about every common file format you can throw at it without having to re-encode.

I don't have much experience dealing with digital TV tuners in computers but MythTV is a very well established digital DVR software package that's free. Assuming there are Linux drivers available for your digital tuner(s) you could replace WMC with something like Ubuntu Linux (which is really a no-brainer to install and use if you can use Windows) and install both MythTV as well as either Boxee or XBMC on it.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 15, 2010 2:47 pm 
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I don’t know what I’m going to do when my EX470 expires, as there are no obvious replacements for it. It does everything I need it to do, except not as simply or reliably as it ought to.

What you can do is get another OEM's Windows Home Server (assuming that MS didnt kill it by then), or before then, get your hands on an OEM copy of the software, which you can load onto the platform of your choice. How much of HP's Mediasmart uniqueness do you actually use?

All I did was take HP’s overhyped marketing claim to heart -- to make the MediaSmart Server the digital hub for all data, photos, audio and video in the home --- and made it my virtual reality. Along with others who invested so heavily in that vision and the technology, this is the thanks we get – a dead end.
Just a dead-end for HP.

...Whatever one may think of Apple, at least they have the vision and the determination to stay the course. You won’t find them tossing the individual consumer overboard to chase some mythical “small business” client with what was supposed to a home product line. ...

But dead-ending is Apple's business model. They have dead-ended their products many times before.
Can I run my Apple ][ software on a new Airbook? How about the stuff from MacOS 7, 8, or 9? You know when the processor core was the Motorola 68000 or on the great PowerPC chips? No, Apple told their developers to support only the latest hardware. MAKE the end user buy the newer versions. If I have an original iPhone or iTouch, I HAVE TO upgrade the OS, to take advantage of many newer Apps, and the older ones may stop working well. I can't even purchase an older version of an app.
Apple is a mainly a Hardware vendor with their own proprietary OS. To make money, they must obsolesce their older technology. (A funny thing is that I can run my old Apple ][ games on the pc with an emulator :-)


I’ll hold onto my EX470 it for as long as I can, consoled by the fact that nobody I know has anything approaching what I now have, and likely never will -- at least not from Microsoft or HP.[/quote]

Hardware appliances are becoming more an more disposable these days:
LPs to 8Track, to Cassettes, to LaserDiscs, to VHS, etc...
Stereos, to Quadraphonic, to the differing home theater 2.1, 5.1, 7.1, etc...
CGA, ECA, VGA, DVI-x, composite, S-Video, Component, HDMI, DP, etc...
cell phones, digital cameras, and yes computers.

As long as we have a method to backup our precious collections, and transfer... (I mean transcode ;-) them to the next level... i'm fine with that.

Good Luck!

rich


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 15, 2010 4:26 pm 
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So what format did you save all your DVD's? Movie-only (no menues, etc.), right?

I'm wanting to do the same but I only have Win7 PC's and an Xbox 360 to view/stream the media so I'm not quite sure what format to save the movies that both those will properly read.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 16, 2010 11:26 am 
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"So what format did you save all your DVD's? Movie-only (no menues, etc.), right?

I'm wanting to do the same but I only have Win7 PC's and an Xbox 360 to view/stream the media so I'm not quite sure what format to save the movies that both those will properly read."

That's easy, the PC can play back anything the Xbox 360 can so all you have to do is pick a format supported by the Xbox 360 and encode in that. Some suggestions are WMV, DiVX, XviD, MP4, AVI.

Try this tool: http://dcunningham.net/media-tools/encodehd/


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 16, 2010 12:25 pm 
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Yes, the reason I have stayed away from Apple to date is the fact that they want everybody to use their proprietary file formats, and theirs alone. In addition, their focus has been on compressed media formats for playback on their portable devices. Apple rolled out their lossless audio format only after Microsoft did. Such compromises in quality may be good enough for the kids, but not for a home theater setup for grownups, where the highest playback quality available is a non-negotiable entry-level requirement. I will accept compressed, but only if it’s mathematically lossless. In video, I don’t want to transcode anything if I can help it. I want the full DVD menu structure preserved, which why I’m such a fan of Slysoft’s AnyDVD HD. So-called “Digital Copy” discs that are included with Blu-ray discs are useful only as beer coasters. I want the Blu-ray disc or at least the equivalent quality online. Frankly, after the HD DVD debacle, I won't buy any physical media unless I can upload it onto the server. Try and find a replacement HD DVD player, for instance, much less a laserdisc player or cassette deck.

The daunting task of reconverting close to 10TBs of music and video just to make my current media collection Apple compliant is not one I relish or would undertake lightly. My fear is that I may have no choice, given the way the wind is blowing.

As an experiment, I converted about 100 music albums from WMA lossless to iTunes lossless. The iTunes player made mincemeat of my album directory structure. “Contributing Artist” is erroneously converted to “Artist” in iTunes. Microsoft’s “Album Artist” does not convert at all; instead the same field in iTunes is left blank. The result is a single-artist album broken up into tiny “albumettes”, depending on who else may have accompanied the album artist on a given track. Duet albums, multiple artist albums, and many classical music albums, are beyond hope, turned into mincemeat. I would have to manually re-edit over 4,500 albums just to get my music reorganized back into its original album folders. A lot of the album art also does not convert properly, meaning even more work. And then there is my virtualized video collection…

The Microsoft world is bigger and more flexible, with Windows Media Center supporting uploaded DVDs natively, for example. Where Microsoft has failed to provide file format support, other software vendors have stepped into the breach. HP’s clumsy attempt to limit the number of file formats it was prepared to support in its MediaSmart Connnect x280n doomed it from the outset. My own workaround was to replace it with a home theater PC loaded with the appropriate third-party software. It’s butt ugly (it's a Gateway), but at least it works.

I’m aware of other vendors out there like Popcorn Hour, but these are largely based on the current Windows Home Server platform as well. We have yet to hear whether these companies will still be onside with Microsoft once Vail is rolled out. Whatever happens, I’m forced to start over with a new hardware platform, since my EX470 cannot be upgraded. That puts Apple in play for me, but only if they’re smart enough to chase the home server market Microsoft and HP have now apparently abandoned and to provide a viable upgrade path for those of us who bought into the original vision of a digitized and online home media collection. I’m not holding my breath, however.

All I want is a technologically competent solution that will preserve and allow me to enjoy a lifetime’s investment in audio and video until I’m old and senile, not one that works for just a year or two until the next software or hardware upgrade. Is that too much to ask?


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 16, 2010 1:21 pm 
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I just thought I'd chime in on this as everyone praises one vendor and slams another about their digital media strategy.

My conclusion is that the WHS and WMS technologies are being targeted for death actively. The idea that a citizen can copy their digital life onto a redundant server makes enemies of the movie studios. No more duplicate purchases of DVDs when the fail, no more need for a second copy for the cottage, or in another format for a different player, etc.

Further, there is a subversive battle for us to tolerate low quality in streams. Netflix and all the other methods of receiving web content on demand via rental are teasing us back to 480p resolution when we can enjoy 1080p off of our WHS products. The difference? Having control of our data is not a profitable venture for MSFT or Apple or any other major stakeholder.

We are indeed, outliers. I love the WHS model and I enjoy my wired Media Server strategy for my own uses. However, too many people will cede that personal freedom and ownership to what amounts to nothing more than rental solutions. (iTunes, appstores, etc) Just wait another year and sticky this post when all the major players offer cloud based media storage again keeping the consumer from fully owning their content.

While my note may sound like a conspiracy theory and a bit disenfranchised, it is only because that is how I feel about the future of digital media in our homes. We all made the investment to become early adopters into a LIFETIME technology (archived media on demand) and we are being punished for this by the shifting trends of media control by the market forces of Mr Jobs/Gates and the MPAA/RIAA. I suggest we band together to keep the WHS v1 technology alive and well long after the HP hardware is gone for good. I believe in the principles of owning digital copies of my content and I know this forum does as well. That said, I don't believe we're moving forward towards a time of superior technological innovation, but rather into regression solely for the purpose of creating a continued cost to access our content model by the big players.

I now return to lurking with my tinfoil hat properly reattached.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 16, 2010 2:44 pm 
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"I’m aware of other vendors out there like Popcorn Hour, but these are largely based on the current Windows Home Server platform as well. "

Uhhh...what?

The Popcorn Hour line of products have nothing whatsoever to do with Windows Home Server, they're standalone playback devices that can either play media off of an internal or USB-attached hard drive, or can pull media across the network for playback from any computer that supports NFS or SMB/Samba file sharing. In essence, they can play media off any Windows, Mac or Linux-based computer it can see that has files shared.


Last edited by Nougat on Thu Dec 16, 2010 5:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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